111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#76  Postby mark » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:27 am

Harbour Master forced re-roll of Oratory....
mark rolled 1d100 and got a total of 23:
23



Mob Group Willpower vs Dolfr's Oratory....
mark rolled 1d100 and got a total of 56:
56
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#77  Postby Jon Reinhardt » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:26 pm

Just a question why is my roll capt by Anglian? All of the conversation has been in Danish/Norse whit the PC until the harbormaster got offended?
Anyhow i guess we will follow the habormaser to get our case heard.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#78  Postby mark » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:55 pm

The entire conversation, as far as I recall, has been in Anglian. Also, the Harbour Master is Anglian and doesn't seem to speak Norse. Besides, not much point in doing Oratory in East Norse because few would understand Dolfr, and especially not the mob who I assumed are the target audience? ;)
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#79  Postby Jon Reinhardt » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:03 am

I did not intend to anger the harbor master in public. Sure Dolfer would like to cut his head off for taking the ship. I intended to express anger to the pc. and then get them to leave the harbor not piss in hornet nest. I dont see any reason for speaking in other than danish when addressing the pc. Its a good chance that a fair amount of the people on the docs understand danish. But i dont see why Dolfer should speak Anglican unless he wants to get the attention of someone other than the players. In general i think the majority of the ncp are very hostile (My impression, you and the other pc might think differently). So speaking in a language they understand unless we want their attention is a bit pointless especially when our skills are capt all the time.

Anyhow next time i will have to specify what language im using. Maybe Dolfer spoke Anglican whiteout thinking.
The scene is to far gone to do anything about it.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#80  Postby mark » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:42 am

I think our switching between languages and all characters' innate comprehension of similar languages can sometimes cause confusion, although on the whole we do very well. Nathan handles this pretty well by using different colours for different languages, but ideally specifying the language before a characters speaks can really help...I do try IC, but maybe sometimes I'm probably not clear enough, and sometimes I have to make assumptions about the language being used by PCs (especially when Anglian speaking PCs are talking to/at/between Anglian characters and other PCs) and who is their audience. For my part in any confusion, I apologise.

As I see it, if Dolfr was speaking Norse when he pointed to the Harbour Master and made his allegations (from a roleplay perspective I thoroughly enjoyed it), then Oswine would have had sufficient Norse language comprehension to have understood enough that he was being accused of theft, and him being pointed at by Dolfr really supports his belief. It would be similar for the local Anglian mob, they start with enough Norse language comprehension (similar language) to understand basic concepts, and that was before they'd lived & worked with Danes in Jorvik for 18months. Another minor but noteworthy point is that Oswine had Danish translators in his entourage, I point I have mentioned IC.

It is true that if Dolfr's oratory address to the mob(?) was in Norse then it wouldn't have been capped by his Anglian, but I'd have to then cap Dolfr's Oratory by the listeners' language comprehension of Norse (I'm still assuming it was the local mob?). But regardless of skill capping, Dolfr rolled 59 and has an Oratory of 39 so the outcome probably would have been much the same in all circumstances. However, if I have got Dolfr's target audience for his Oratory wrong and Dolfr wants to use another Luck Point then please let me know and if necessary we will edit/fix the IC. :smile:

I really do get that Dolfr didn't intend to cause a big scene, and I probably would have dropped it had it not provided a convenient short cut to where the PCs were probably ultimately going anyway...which is to get to the bottom of getting their ship back? Had there not been a bit of a scene at the docks then the Harbour Master and potentially the Reeve of Jorvik wouldn't have been involved...and that would have meant significant real & roleplay delays in getting an audience to see the king....and losing a ship was always expected to be a frustrating scene...because I'm that sort of evil GM. :twisted:
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#81  Postby Jon Reinhardt » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:04 pm

Yes thats what i figured out. I just wantet to point out theses thing. And normaly Dolfer has a tendency to roll badly anyhow so it does not mater that much. I just wanted to point theses things out not whine back the play. Lets move on.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#82  Postby mark » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:36 pm

So the next stop for the crew is to accompany the Harbour Master to the Reeve. Once there, ask for (summary) judgement where the accused is the Harbour Master, and the allegation is he who stole the PC's ship?

Assuming that to be what the PCs wish to do, I'll try and post an update tomorrow or Tuesday moving the scene on to meeting the high reeve. If anybody has any questions, concerns or roleplay...well...you know the drill! Thanks. :smile:
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#83  Postby NMorgan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:37 pm

What could possibly go wrong? :P
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#84  Postby mark » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:45 pm

I should point out that the PCs are all aware that in most places it is generally a bad idea to call people names or make allegations without evidence. A false accusation carries the same penalty (actually slightly more severe) as the alleged crime. Even a lesser crime of 'name calling' can have some fine/punishment/consequences if it doesn't provoke a duel (where it is permitted).

I'll start work on the update.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#85  Postby jezreel » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:23 pm

if GUnnar can do the speaking, he has oratory and courtesy at kick-ass levels (cough) so it'll be a breeze
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#86  Postby Scipio » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:29 pm

...we might want to spend five minutes checking our "customs" or other knowledge skills for what is likely the law of the land here, before we decide on what the complaint is. The fact that some bastard has stolen our ship might not mean that it counts as theft. Unfortunately.

Edit: Is there anything we can roll for, to understand how the local laws and customs work? I've just bumped Biarni's politics&economics...
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#87  Postby Jon Reinhardt » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:11 pm

Can i roll influence?
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#88  Postby NMorgan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:44 pm

Also curious about influence, and whether this is a scenario we can augment either with passions or other characters assisting, and any potential ramifications thereof, etc etc.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#89  Postby mark » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:37 pm

jezreel wrote:if GUnnar can do the speaking, he has oratory and courtesy at kick-ass levels (cough) so it'll be a breeze

If Gunnar spoke Anglian then a good Courtsey roll might be enough to convince the Reeve to listen to Gunnar, but unfortunately he doesn't.
Scipio wrote:...we might want to spend five minutes checking our "customs" or other knowledge skills for what is likely the law of the land here, before we decide on what the complaint is. The fact that some bastard has stolen our ship might not mean that it counts as theft. Unfortunately.

Edit: Is there anything we can roll for, to understand how the local laws and customs work? I've just bumped Biarni's politics&economics...

Very sound advice. There is just enough similarity between Norse & Anglian cultures that I'll permit a formidable Customs roll to grant knowledge of some of the basics of law & punishment in Anglian countries. Obviously won't make anybody into Robert Shapiro or Johnnie Cochran. :P

Jon Reinhardt wrote:Can i roll influence?

Up to a point, I am expecting Influence or Oratory rolls opposed by Willpower to be part of the trial, however....
Oratory will be more effective in this situation, because there is a crowd. Willpower rolls against Influence rather than Oratory will be one grader easier for the Reeve (or whoever is the target). I can imagine lots of specifics where it might be possible use Oratory/Influence in the current scene, but I need to know exactly what Dolfr is trying to do so that I can assign a difficulty. Thanks.

NMorgan wrote:Also curious about influence, and whether this is a scenario we can augment either with passions or other characters assisting, and any potential ramifications thereof, etc etc.
Augmenting will depend on what the specific Infuence/Oratory attempt is trying to achieve. For example, for a lenient sentence when ...if... convicted, Personal Reputation would be very permissible (see below). Other characters can assist/augment if they have a relevant skill to augment with...again depends on the specifics of the Influence attempt, but I am struggling to think of any suitable augmenting skills besides Lore(Law) @ standard difficulty or Culture(Anglian) @hard difficulty or Lore(Politics & Economics) @ formidable difficulty...Biarni has Lore(Politics & Economics).

The potential ramifications of Influencing might be either deepening or weakening of a passions(s). For example, publicly pleading (ie: while rolling Influence) for leniency when augmented by Personal Reputation might weaken a character's Personal Reputation. To know what other ramifications there could possibly be I'd need to know more specifics. At the moment, I just don't know what exactly the PCs are trying to Influence, so it's hard to know what else might be a factor.
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Re: 111-868 Undr á Gæignesburh [OOC]

Post Number:#90  Postby Jon Reinhardt » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:05 pm

I would like to convince him to take the armring and give us the ship back
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